ISB CDA: "Bahria Enclave" vs "Park View City" vs "Bahria Enclave 2" A.K.A. "Bahria Hills"

Buying Property
#15

@isloo1: Thank you bro. Although I am relatively new to the real estate investment sector, since I am planning to invest for the first time very soon, I have been doing my self-learning, research and browsing this forum definitely helps to get personal opinions from people living in the zone / area and people who are actively investing in similar properties.

Bahria Golf City is definitely #1 on my list since its inception like 5-8 years ago, when I was still a student. I don’t see any marketing around it anymore, as it’s very mature already. For me I view it as a retirement place, the most liveable place while not far from ISB city, nested within the lower foothills, but prices there are not for the average joe. Also when that 5-star hotel is complete, there will be a huge price jump definitely. Golf City rates are like buying in F-6 or G-6. For retirement purposes if I am definitely able meet it’s financial demands, then definitely a 10 marla plot would be the ultimate residential property to have there, no doubt. Golf City Murree defines the boundary between middle-upper and elite class in luxury style. :slight_smile:

I would personally recommend you to visit BE2 / BH some day on nice weather, and see the semi-developed infrastructure plus nice views that are present, it’s quite nicely planned, many videos available on youtube as well. Definitely it will take a long time for it to get populated indeed, and I think the Naya Pakistan appartments when completed in 2022/2023 (already many floors have been built for a few apartment buildings, and progress is fast; have been monitoring progress with videos that people uploaded between Q1 21 and Q4 21) will be the first ones to see residents, as this low cost residency scheme within such a nice hilly environment has a high probability to get filled up quickly with residents. My assumption is that the Naya Pakistan scheme, might drive more people in quicklier (lets see), which then sets the basis and foundation / indication when people will slowly and gradually start to move in and eventually settle and live in, then we would also potentially see the first few houses to be constructed and built (but these are all assumptions one after the other). Possessions have not started yet, but for some streets they will start quite soon as I was told.

#16

Pardon the naiveness, in case, I may had missed the obvious about pricing (i.e., budget) or optimal options (i.e., personal living and asset and/or appreciation). Anyways, I would add Gulberg Greens/Residencia and D-12 to the list.

Gulberg (whether Greens or Residencia)
To me reflects one of those options that represents one of the best combinations for personal living and investment. Greens for sure farm houses and only lump sum payments is best in terms of location, the green factor, one of the best managed farm houses in twin cities. Quite liveable as of now.

Residencia will take time, though initial blocks around D-Markaz are getting populated quite fast but I say it’s a 5 odd years from now till it gets in proper shape but prices will jump, community lifestyle will thrive and location will be among one of the best as far as proximity to the capital etc.

D-12
Among one of my personal favourites and among top priority of CDA developments. Some of the administrative elites have been alloted the plots there and it keeps on getting improved with infrastructure development, location, pricing, and population. Though it’s CDA which for sure can’t compete with infrastructure and ameneties like BT but for me still D-12 represents the best option in that zone after Fs and Es of CDA. Location right at feet of Margala Hills.

Being Devil’s advocate, as much as I admire BE anyday if personal living right now, it’s stagnation, reputation of MR and BT projects, political factors like Aleem Khan/PVC and for sure deteriorating service provisiong by BT represent some considerable question marks!

#17

@Its_ImtiaX_88: Definitely, D-12 and Gulberg Greens do deserve a mention into the list. D-12 is one of the most beautiful blocks next to Margalla, very liveable place indeed. However, infrastructure such as access roads should be better. D-12 Markaz is almost non-existent, not really a commercial environment there. Even though CDA charges hefty prices for their land, they don’t provide the infrastructure that private housing schemes do. This is notably the difference between the public and private housing sectors. Public housing sectors have access to the best land and locations, for instance in ISB Zone 1.

I might raise some eyebrows by saying this, it’s sad but CDA is a corrupt organization (not everyone, but there are some people), there are many evidences. How do they earn money to pay their employees? Sale of land at very high prices (cheapest outskirt CDA zones near encroachments have more than double price as compared to BE for the same plot size), recovery of land owned by Mafia, and through “hafta” payed by Qabza groups. This is sad, but this is the reality.

Gulberg Greens is also a good society. However, it will take time to get populated, only D Block is currently the most advanced. The problem is in the design, and I am not sure who designed the map. When you enter a society you have commercials which is fine, then you have farm houses located first and then finally the residencia? Aren’t farm houses supposed to be in the most secluded part of a society, they should be in the furthest corners that have least traffic, noise and more nature? Not sure which genius came up with that map.

CDA List (not prioritized in terms of superiority - prioritization is very subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion):

  1. Park Enclave 3 (based on PE1 and PE2, please be cautious to invest here)
  2. Bahria Hills
  3. Bahria Enclave
  4. B-17
  5. Park View City
  6. DHA 5
  7. Green Enclave 1
  8. D-12
  9. Gulberg Residencia
  10. Bahria Golf City (TMA Murree)
#18

For sure, CDA ameneties and infrastructure is not on par with the likes of DH/BT in general. However, the elite sectors of CDA E/F and now to quite some extent D-12 and forthcoming C and D series are not that off the mark.

D-12 is an under developing sector but it’s location, the proximity to greenry and calmness that it has to offer is the Selling point.

It’s true, the golden combination mostly dont exist (i.e., liveability and growth). In many instances, a trade-off has to be accepted and D-12 represents one of the options for trade-offs.

The problem with PAK is almost every Real Estate project/organisation/player is corrupt to the core. CDA main corruption is in its infrastructure and civic works. Whereas BT/DH/etc. are corrupt in terms of delivery, encroachments and very one sided terms and conditions that exploit customers. BT land litigations and documents issues are deep to the point that no bank accepts the documents.

All in all, yes unfortunately The Real Estate and Auto Sectors here are extreme exploitative one way or the other.

Regarding Gulberg, yes I agree Farm house should be at a more calmer place. But as Gulberg started to acquire land it started developing/organising Farms. Later on with more land came Residencia.

The concept of Farm Houses is away from crowded and suffocated life of city. However, in general with poor access, deteriorated road Infrastructures and Petro Prices location prevails (fortunately and unfortunately). These few signals at Kashmir Highway, that were mostly hassle free are now turning into night mare with long queues and accidents.

#19

@nagijawad bro, D-12 is a completely different beast. You can’t put it in the same league with DHAs, Bahria, Multi or Gulberg.

CDA does not need to entice people, therefore, their sectors at ugly in the beginning, but then they do beautification, horticulture, pavements, parks, etc, once house construction and commercials is pretty much complete.

For your love of mountains, you can also consider Shah Allah Ditta and its nearby housing options. There is one in C-12, opposite to D-12, that is inside Margalla hills and prices are still reasonable. Will not remain the same when traffic starts flowing on Margalla Avenue early next year.

#20

If i had a choice right now, I will ignore any option other than D-12, In five years time D-12 return will have no match with Bahria, DHA, B-17 or any other option, Location wise D-12 will be new I-8 an entry gate into main ISB, amenities wise it will be on par with F series or may be better. much better scenery and greenery.

#21

@isloo1: D-12 is a “successful” CDA sector, compared to the others in the list above, which are mostly privately owned housing societies. Successful is the keyword here with CDA, and another exception is Park Enclave (PE1, PE2) where they didn’t do a good job, or just maybe people did not buy into it, compared to BE which was offering at half the price at that time. BE was a rival competitor to PE and won in that scenario (lower price was the deciding factor why people on-boarded BE, location wise PE was better off from Zero Point with road access). Also to note CDA dominates Zone 1, and this was Zone 4. We all know, Zone 4 is not dominated by CDA but by private housing schemes, BE, BT, Gulberg, PVC etc incl. exceptions such as DHA, Naval etc. So, in conclusion, if a Bahria society will spawn next to CDA owned one, history might repeat itself, as the case with PE and BE. I’m not saying Bahria is perfect, no society is, and comparing the public and private sectors in Pakistan is also not a 1:1 comparison, I mean the aforementioned example, is not an apples to apples comparison.

Let’s talk Zone 1:
Amongst the biggest CDA mishaps, I-11 tops the list, which is a sad story that you can find a sector so close within the central city limits, where plot prices average 100 lacs (while the next blocks are 2-3 times more). I-11 is not a liveable place since basic amenities were never provided there, a camping ground if you may. :slight_smile:

Not sure what is happening in I-12 either. Technically all the older sectors should be fully developed before developing further south and south west. However, after E/F/G-11s there are just encroachments, there is no map or civilized society after that in a continuous pattern. Empty patches here and there, encroachments, village dwellings, then some blocks G-13 to G-15 where some road pattern and block style plotting is visible, and similarly for I-14 to I-16 (these have encroachments within themselves as well). Technically after the 11’series blocks the only travel method is, Kashmir highway, GT road, and Margalla Av. when it’s complete. And until 11’series there is Margall Rd, Nazim-ud-din Rd, Ibn-e-Sina Rd, South Service Rd plus Kashmir Highway and Margalla Av. when its complete. This pattern of development are the results of CDA decisions over the years, so they are to blame ultimately and not private housing societies or their owners. If I look at Islamabad from Google Earth, civilized society end’s at 11 or 12 series blocks, then there are just patches of sparse blocks after that. In conclusion, when travelling southbound central Islamabad city ends at this point, where the evident city block patterns are not continuously evident anymore and things get more chaotic with roads going in every direction and houses not aligned (i.e., not planned).

E-12 might be the new kid on the block, however it’s original plans started in 1989, that gives us an idea, that with CDA risk is high for new emerging sectors, you never know. :slight_smile:

#22

@isloo1: Thanks for the advice. Definitely the hills are a place of peace quiet and tranquility. Shah Allah Ditta might not be for your average city dweller. It’s an old historical town, and the people who settled in it long ago (probably before the ISB city came to be) knew the importance of that location, it’s definitely one of the most elevated places in that area with somewhat flat land for farming.

I guess let the villagers live in peace, and the city dwellers within the city limits. :slight_smile:

CDA does do beautification, horticulture etc. no doubt that is evident in the older blocks throughout consistently, the only thing is that their speed and rate is very slow compared to private schemes. And we know that time is money in an investor’s world. :slight_smile:

I have heard about Margalla Valley at C-12, but never really investigated it, I need to look it up further and see. I guess its not one of the most famous or well-known blocks. The main reason is that it’s not clearly defined in any version of the Islamabad Mastertplan maps I have seen, and it’s in Zone 3 which are the forests and natural reserves. Ideal location for farmhouses and retirement homes. :slight_smile:

https://earth.google.com/web/search/Margalla+Valley,+Islamabad,+Pakistan/@33.7068926,72.9125101,615.74817198a,861.21047015d,35y,0h,45t,0r/data=Co8BGmUSXwolMHgzOGRmYmNkOTkxNWQ0ZWU1OjB4ZjVkOTc1NDFlMzQzMWY1OBlnZOt0e9pAQCFCMcOQZjpSQCokTWFyZ2FsbGEgVmFsbGV5LCBJc2xhbWFiYWQsIFBha2lzdGFuGAIgASImCiQJ4DQpSHTeQEARt_lfzdzXQEAZmH1Nbyo8UkAhd4GCS4c5UkAoAg

They seem to have a limited inventory, ah, need to find their map:

#23

Above threads were as a contributor. This below is an advice seeking one:

Which BLOCKS and SECTORS in housing schemes and societies (incl. DHA, Naval, Govt. etc.) within the ISB-RWP twin cities region including B-17, Multi-Gardens, Faisal Hills and Taxila zones (closest to major populated / urban areas and centers, excluding Chakri and Adyala road societies) do you see a potential to invest in Dec 2021 or early 2022 which meet the criteria and factors below:

The factors sorted in order of importance (highest to lowest importance) – last two points have equal importance and excluding price limits / range,

  • Residential plots available on installments (pay-as-you-go, no lump sum burden on investor)
  • Plot or potential plot site / area available on-ground and can be physically visited and inspected (no files, allotted plot number with street at least, dirt road access to plot is good enough, neighbouring or nearby plot cutting or dirt / paved road access in-progress, some indication to convince plot will be ready soonish, if possession available or near-to-possession that is a plus point)
  • Blocks and sectors that have 5 marla plots (most friendly for the average investor) but could also include 10 marla (for people opting to build a modest-sized house)
  • Confirmed that plot or nearby and neighboring plots / land have no litigation
  • Approved LOP and NOC (if NOC is applicable)
  • Fast development rate (at least some machinery and people working continuously)
  • Recognized builder or previous projects have shown good success
  • Proximity to upcoming approved future projects (e.g., Margalla Av, Ring Road etc.) could be a plus point

Hopefully the factors above say it all for most of us. This is to invest obviously with least amount of risk as possible.

#24

I think New City phase 2, and faisal hills files covers all of your points, No other society comes to my mind fulfilling all these points.

#25

@nice.isb: Thanks bro. Haven’t heard about New City yet, seems more into Taxila near Wah Cantt. Faisal Hills and Faisal Margalla City (FMC, opposite to Multi-Gardens) seems to the new B-17 on the horizon.

I cannot find any installment options available in FMC, probably because it’s just adjacent to Multi-Gardens / MPCHS Blocks C and E which are already developed. The installments option is available only in Faisal Hills, that has yet to have residents to move in, but land seems semi-developed, not sure about possession.

Faisal Hills is in my opinion the best candidate. So let’s talk about Faisal Hills:

  • Block A seems semi-developed. Does anyone know if installments still available here? The on-ground situation seems like already possession might already be available, if that’s the case, then no installments of course.
  • Block B has many litigations, more than half of its area, which is not a good sign currently. Google maps shows that not much development / excavation has happened here as there seem to be a small village and houses within the area where the central portion of this block should be. There does seem to be installments available on zameen.com, but I would not buy here as it’s risky.
  • Block C many readily installments available in great quantity. A lot of area is under development which is good, progress shows good on Google maps. This I would recommend to invest in asap.
  • Executive Block opposite of Block A and actually planned on the hills themselves (kati phahari to be better, simply barren hills, cannot compare to the greener Margalla hills), but a good location for the price. Does anyone know if installments are still available here? Based on Google maps inspection, seems a lot of development work has already happened here. It covers a small location, so a limited inventory of plots available on zameen.com.

The norm is that, dealers put low prices online to lure people to get interested (the most basic marketing strategy), but when you call them to inquire further, its +20 / 30 lac or more in reality.

#26

yes you can buy installment files in open market, In A, B and C there are many areas that has full possession. the google map is not so updated, but on ground view is far more developed. New city phase 2 executive block is just adjacent to FH C, but the prices are far far lower than FH, you can buy a fully developed plot under 28- 30 lac, or installment option with 7-8 upfront and rest on installment, the good thing about NC 2 is that they develop on ground first and than they give you the installment plots, so if you pay only 50% of total payment you can get the possession and construct the house. they don’t involve many investors and dealers and try to sell directly to end buyer. that is why very less hype. But I think its far better and secure investment compare to FH B and C. FH A and executive have other perks that outshine NC 2 executive block.

#27

Nasir saab, this is the deal breaker, as you said:
“the good thing is that they develop on ground first and than they give you the installment plots, so if you pay only 50% of total payment you can get the possession and construct the house. they don’t involve many investors and dealers and try to sell directly to end buyer.”

I wish more builders would offer this option, to pay from their pockets at first to kick-off development, so end-users would gain more trust when they visit and decide to purchase, however this negatively impact’s dealer folks. Building up trust is the most important part from an end-user (client’s) perspective, but builders are in it for their personal monetary benefit only, and the client’s needs are secondary to them and in some cases non-existent. Visiting a site where you have no indication where your plot will be (or not) is just like gambling or shooting in the dark, and investors want to see some productive progress before injecting funds into a project.

#28

Murree Expressway Housing Schemes and Societies
For people who love the hills, what is your opinion on Federal Government employee housing schemes (FGEHA), that non-federal employees can take benefit from. Assume development is slow as with all government related projects.
http://www.fgeha.gov.pk/ongoing-plot-projects/

Both FGEHA housing projects I have mentioned below are accessible via the Murree Expressway, one before the Phulgran Toll Plaza and one after it.

Green Enclave 1: The bridge over the Korang river to access this society almost seems to be nearly complete. It mostly has dirt roads, and just heard recently the main road is also complete. It is next to Bahria Agro Farms and Bahria Enclave 2. It’s in Zone 4, so falls under CDA jurisdiction, but FGEHA needs no NOC. Development work seems to be quite good.

Commoners Sky Gardens: Previously known as Green Enclave 2. This is the cheapest option from both, however it is further up in the hills. To reach there, one must exit from Murree Expressway after the Bahria Golf City exit. A nice drive there to reach indeed. This is not under a CDA Zone or ICT territory as its after the Phulgran Toll Plaza, jurisdiction under TMA Murree or probably RDA. Development seems to be slow or maybe even stalled.

Both look long-term projects for investment. Based on development status, Green Enclave 1 is obviously going to be delivered faster and earlier than Sky Gardens, based on the current progress.

Advice needed:
1- Any idea if there is an installment option on either of these?
2- Could they materialize in say 5 or 10 years? When do you think this could happen?
3- Has balloting finished yet or not?
4- Are files (with allotted plot and street numbers) available in the open market?
5- Anyone has more information on these projects and their status? I cannot find much information on the internet. There are only a few youtube videos of both projects.
6- What is your personal advice to invest here? Have you invested or not, or plan to in the future?

UPDATE: There is no development happening in Sky Gardens and will not so soon. Just recently saw the meeting minutes from the last FGEHA Executive Board meeting in November, and all the land purchase is not yet complete, some has been mutated, some 300-500 kanals is pending. I guess when these files are available in the open market for re-sale is the question. This is the thing I like, everything is clear and white on paper here, no gossips, no rumours, no unknowns and no uncertainties. Genuine documents available from FGEHA for everyone to access. Therefore, better to go ahead with Green Enclave 1.
http://www.fgeha.gov.pk/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/EB-18.pdf (scroll to page 29 for the update on Green Enclave II)

#29

@isloo1 bro, are you referring to Margalla Valley society in C-12. Is it a legitimate society and all the NOC’s etc. are in place. For some reason there is not much information available about this society on google.

#30

Lack of information of C-12 is a factor, and limited inventory. They didn’t market it.

Arshad bhai, if you are looking for hilly options, suggest societies near towards Murree Expressway. This area is currently not a hotspot yet, but in the next 5-10 years it will be gaining more attention, due to climate change, hazards, and lack of natural resources. Currently there is small to very little focus there, because we are just exhausting and expanding into the plains and going into phases 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, and so on everywhere.

#31

Google Earth image of DHA and Bahria Town, in March 2003 (earliest with good resolution) vs August 2021 (most recent). I took these out to show the forest depletion in the past 20 years. And with newer and newer blocks coming in, it will one day not be existent. Before it was providing to the environment and had an impact, but now the massive population surrounding it, it doesn’t have a positive impact on the environment.

sample
sample3140×3812 3.93 MB

#32

@arshadwazir bro, the housing scheme in C-12 is actually not a society, but a privately owned land turned into plots according to a map and sold to individuals. Land transfer is done through Inteqal/registry. CDA had a dispute over demarcation of boundary, which has been settled after Survey of Pakistan did demarcation again and cleared CDA lands as well as Margalla Hills National Park’s territory.

In addition, the land owners have also won a case in the court, where court ordered CDA to develop by laws and regularize this settlement. This was couple of years ago, and I don’t know what happened afterwards. You can get update from local dealers.

All the plots have long been sold out and now occasionally come in re-sale market. After Margalla Avenue announcement, prices have increased significantly, but still way below the neighbouring D-12. Once MA is complete, price of a Kanal plot in C-12 will jump from 2 crore now to 5 crore, and in D-12, from 7 crore now to 12 crore. The two sectors will never be the same, but C-12 offers better rate of return .

So, from investment standpoint, this seems like a hidden gem that few people know and talk about. It is the only [modern] housing project that is inside Margalla Hills.

#33

Ok thanks Bro - realistically this means that although it will be a fruitful investment but maybe not good for personal living as there is not much clarity about the provision of amenities and maintenance services

#34

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