ISB CDA: "Bahria Enclave" vs "Park View City" vs "Bahria Enclave 2" A.K.A. "Bahria Hills"

Buying Property
#1

Dear Forum Members, Experts, and Gurus,

I am an overseas member and I am interested in investing within the CDA Zone 4. Interested in on-ground plots, no files. Towards the north of ISB and RWP and just south of the lush green hills lie the 3 options I am considering:

  1. Bahria Enclave (many sectors already developed, many people living already, many commercials, newest sectors best option for investment, stable prices with lesser risk)
  2. Park View City (NOC suspended, would eventually get the NOC, work on-going very fast, very few people living there, political factor dependent upon potential PTI rule, possession to come soonish, uncertain about promises with new blocks)
  3. Bahria Enclave 2 / Bahria Hills (semi-developed, nobody living there, smaller society and limited options, best Margalla views with elevation all over, Naya Pakistan appartments work is going fast, not alot of market traction / attraction from dealers and agents, will take time for people to move-in, when could people start to move-in?)

My plan is for a long-term investment near the Margalla hills, minimum say 2 years and maximum upto 3-5 years. Thinking of getting 2 or even 3 plots of 10 marla, and possible to spread them between the above 3 societies. Bahria is the recommended brand in Pakistan’s housing sector, while Park View has a political element to it I guess.

Bahria Enclave: For this option, I am looking to invest in 10 marla plots. Sector N and Sector K are my main targets, price wise, plus I am looking for an elevated location. Sector N has few 10 marla plots while there are people living there, while Sector K will take ~2 years to get possession (paved roads not yet even built). Question is that, within the original CDA approved LOP Sector K (on CDA website) is still visible as litigation (no land parcels defined). Should I go ahead with Sector K or is it risky? Few dealers have shown me different plottings (maps and sizes) of Sector K, so there is no final plan from Bahria themself I guess. For Sector K after 1-2 years, the prices will definitely increase, while on the other hand Sector N has some margin (prices already up since people living there). There is a 20 lac difference on-average for 10 marla between both sectors. One weird thing is that on the CDA website it says that their NOC is not approved? How can this be? I will ignore this for the time being. There seems to be many new and updated versions of Enclave maps floating on the internet and these maps are being made by real estate agents and themselves, not by Bahria. I will only consider the Enclave LOP map available on the CDA website to be the real true one. Plus, there seem to be many litigation areas within the Enclave in almost every Sector, even in Sectors A and B and especially in Sector C. So I guess, we need to be extremely careful and vigilant here.

*** The fake maps made by real estate agents or dealers (not made by the builders themselves) which are not CDA approved as original LOPs, this issue stands for all the societies mentioned in this post, not only the Enclave. Litigation areas are the most risky business because they are not clearly highlighted or mentioned in non-CDA approved LOPs / maps.

Park View City: Golf state, overseas and J block are out of the question, because not sure where the land will be and it is still in the state of files. Only heighted option there is block F, with 5 and 10 marla. Possession might come soon, but I have heard others saying they are having possession problems. Given that NOC currently suspended, and next year we don’t know what will happen with PTI (if they remain in power or not), so not sure if the development work of the society could come to a freeze if PTI are not there anymore and Aleem Khan has no political support. However, current rate of work and development there is quite fast, this is a plus point currently. Current LOP on CDA website does not show Block F, so submitting new maps of revised plans and new blocks, plus paying fines for the entrance road litigation case, NOC in my opinion would eventually get approved if PTI will be in power by that time, but these are all assumptions. Nonetheless, the environment and the views are really great. Plus their history with their Lahore counterpart is good as far as I have heard.

Bahria Enclave 2 / Bahria Hills: Even though I mentioned this in the last, this is the most preferred option for me, because this is still available in installments. Compared to the above 2, this is the most longest-term investment, and might take upto 4-5 years to have people start moving in. However, the Naya Pakistan apartments are quickly rising quite high already (fast development on that), so there is a chance people might move in early. Only drawback is that the small Angoori Road patch between the entrance of the society and Murree Expressway is very narrow and small, but the Green Enclave (next to Bahria Agro Farms) will also most likely use this entrance, plus that is a larger project. This hills project is definitely the smallest one compared to the above 2, and has the prettiest and nicest views of Margalla considering their proximity and elevation. Positive point is that NOC has been approved by CDA in Q1 2021, and it is directly next to the elite and luxury class Bahria Golf City. I would consider investing in 1 even 2, 10 marla plots here, what do you think? I am not sure why there is not much market traction on this society, maybe too far from ISB city? or majority of investors and agents prefer shorter/smaller investments in general? Given that it’s on-ground plots available installments, Bahria owned, NOC approved, limited residential plots, stunning views with elevation, these seem the most optimal conditions and risk free for long-term. Your opinions and thoughts? Downside is the Angoori Road access, it might be far for the average daily traveller/commuter to reach ISB or RWP, plus the traffic jam at Bhara Kahu (the underpass or bypass is still a vision only).

Let me know your comments and concerns about what you guys think. Regardless of the society, my idea is to hold long-term at least for a few years, then after that, I could build a house or even sell. Bahira Hills considering its views, I might even opt to build a house for myself to move there myself when retired. :slight_smile:

B-17 / Multi-Gardens / MPCHS: On another side note, B-17 is another option, however only 2 blocks there (Blocks A and B) actually lie within CDA zone according to the ISB Masterplan, plus its over-priced, over-hyped, and whatever juice investors had to squeeze out from it they already have. When the Margalla road finishes (at least Phase 1 which connects D-12), there might be a small spike in prices, but not that high. In Block A or B, I would prefer an apartment instead, given that plot prices there are exaggerated and the result of manipulation. In Block A there are a few apartments being built next to the artificial lake, and having a flat facing the southern edge of the Margalla hills seems to be the best option in CDA Zone 2.

Appreciate all your valuable suggestions and responses. :slight_smile:

Best,
JayDee

#3

woowwww so much homework and insights, great work brother, having experience of B-17 I will totally agree that there is very less quick juice left in B-17, though the prices have come reverse in last few months but still the rate is high. Now onward there will be slow, steady and organic growth but it will keep growing, but not expecting sudden quick jumps like we seen in last 1 year. Have you done your research on park enclave 3 and green enclave 1, those options can also be consider. Don’t know much dynamics of BH but on papers it seems a very good option. If you could also tell us your budget and these society prices that will be great. Investment wise my priority list would be:

  1. Park Enclave 3 (near to park road, NIH, New special technology zone, new hospital, new interchange, cutting is done and still available on installments with extra profits)
  2. Bahria Hills
  3. Bahria Enclave
  4. B-17/FMC
  5. Park view city
  6. DHA 5 (not so much knowledge of it but seems a good option on paper for long term investment)
  7. Green enclave 1 balloted and cutting plots only
#4

I disagree, B-17 has lots of potential in organic price growth, maybe not in short term, but certainly in next 2-3 years time frame. It should be compared with C-14, C-15 prices.

#5

Yes that is why i said “QUICK” juice, but organic and steady growth is still there.

#6

@nagijawad Zone 4 options that you mentioned are not best for pure investment. An investment option should be purely based on rate of return and risks factors, not your personal fascination.

Bahria Enclave has been stagnant since 2015-16 and prices have only grown recently. Due to mis-alignment of clown Malik Riaz in the power corridors, his miseries are going to continue until there is a major shift in the current hybrid arrangement. So, despite its luster and glitter, BE is not going to beat others (CDA, DHA, Multi) in price growth.

So I would advise you to spread your investment in CDA, DHA-Isl, Multi and DHA-Lahore. This will give you a good “mix” and safeguard against risks.

By the way, 3-5 years is not truly long-term investment in Pakistani real estate market, You should invest in small denominations (5 marlas) and hold for 5-10 years.

Do not block all your investment in real state investment. Keep 30-40% in more liquid form, such as stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.

Hope this helps.

#7

Jawad sb, details you wrote are good enough to elaborate. However, the intention seems not explicit, i. e., whether it’s for pure investment or personal living.

For personal living I would prefer BE and PVC, after Gulberg anyday. However, for investment, in my view neither of BE, PVC, B-17 are the optimal options.

#8

I think for future living zone 4 is best, as climate is becoming worse every year. we will see Smog, heat waves, water crisis more often now. Water is not going to be an issue in Zone 4. I think there will be a sudden rise in Zone 4 in next 5 years.

#9

@nice.isb: Thank you sir. I have mostly done my own research since the past 1 month or so. The main source of knowledge: Youtube channels have been very helpful (Property Naama, Property Expo, videos from several other builders and agents), Google maps, Zameen.com, Seerab and of course other resources on the internet. I still have to visit the places personally in the coming weeks before I can make a decision. I have spent numerous hours to gain such insights though within a month’s time.

Based on your priority list, seems you have a similar taste as me. I would probably rank them quite similarly more or less, based on your list. I am currently based in Europe, in a hilly and mountainous landscape, and know the importance of natural resources (water, wind, climate etc.) more importantly, rivers, dams, greenery, nature, hills etc.

Park Enclave 3 does seem a good option for 5 marla, even 10 marla indeed. Prices are high no doubt, but location to Rawal Dam, Chak Shahzad, Zero Point is minimalistic. NOC ka koi chakkar hi nahi as its CDA owned.

I saw Property Expo (Qurat ul Ain) said it’s pricey, but good location, however main factor is very slow development. Phase 1 being launched more than 10 years ago, still very few houses as compared to BE which is more recent. So I think prices would be stable in general in the future. For me Phase 3 is the only option in terms of affordability, and since it’s installments can definitely consider. For investment purposes it’s good, however to build a house and live there even in the next 5 years, most likely not, based on the very slow development rate. Slow development is normal with CDA and government-owned agencies.

Once again, thanks for the valuable insights, will definitely keep PE 3 as one of the options in priority list as well.

My range for 10 marla is around 1 crore +/- 20 lac, would not want to go higher than 1.2 for 10 marla to be honest. For 5 marla on the other hand would not pay more than 65 lac for premium location and society. I don’t prefer larger than 10 marla, simply because I want to adhere to the pocket size of the normal middle-upper class public in general, so easy resale and selling is possible. Sometimes for 1 Kanal you have to wait quite some time for a potential buyer. Since 5 marla is the best investment size, prefer 10 marla to be the most recommended to build a modest-sized house.

DHA 5 is not bad, agree, still a bit open and sparse at the moment (not so packed yet), especially if you want to consider living closer to more commercials, such as Giga Mall etc.

The optimal place I would consider myself would be Bahria Golf City (this is purely my opinion, based on my use case), mainly for retirement purposes which I would envision, very long vision indeed. But, I would call it a “bauhat sunsaan” place to live, however I am okay with that, want peace. I’ll be honest, Golf City Murree is out of my range for a reasonable sized house or plot, who knows maybe after a few years, let’s see if prices there don’t sky rocket. By the way, Sky Gardens might be a good option, but that will take time. :slight_smile:

#10

@isloo1: Organic price growth drives the entire real estate market in general, and is not just for a specific society such as B-17. I have a friend who has an apartment in B-17 and in Block C a Spanish Villa, it’s a good investment for him, no doubt. As the dollar price increases, fuel costs increase, cost of living increases in general, it is natural the organic growth would yield a higher property price as time progresses, but that’s not an artificial spike which is forged due to demand-supply hype created through investors. Society-oriented spikes are purely society development driven through investors, while generic real estate market spikes are naturally occuring over a course of time due to inflation.

#11

@Its_ImtiaX_88: Thank you for your honest opinion and feedback. Long-term situation is a bit uncertain. Currently for investment, but within the next few years could be a potential for living as well, however current situation is to invest and hold.

For personal living I would consider BH / BE2 only, over everything else mentioned here, as preference is Margalla facing open view and heighted location.

I have the same view as you, BE, PVC, and B-17 for the time being. Not many people comment on BH / BE2, probably because they have limited knowledge about it, haven’t visited it yet, not familiar with it, or its just too early.

#12

Very well said indeed!

For me, amenity of natural resources is priority #1, these are god gifted (water, rivers, forests, hills, trees, nature, climate). For me this is the most important factor to select a location, natural beauty and closeness to water reserves (dams etc.). However, this situation does not apply to everyone for selecting a location, some people prefer easier / faster access, nearer to main commercials, main city etc.

We have to be a bit more forward-thinking, thinking ahead for the next 5-10 years. If you want to double or triple your investments there could be potentially other better options, and natural scenery, natural resources etc. might not be applicable for higher and faster profit returns.

Water will be more scarce as population increases, pollution more bad / worse (e.g., smog), temperatures will rise due to emissions, so we need to move nearer to the hills. :slight_smile:

[nice.isb]
I think for future living zone 4 is best, as climate is becoming worse every year. we will see Smog, heat waves, water crisis more often now. Water is not going to be an issue in Zone 4. I think there will be a sudden rise in Zone 4 in next 5 years.

#13

@isloo1: Thanks for the enlightening answer. Agree, investment is based on risk factors, and not because I like to stay nearer to the hills, water sources and greenery. Generally lower the risk, lower the profit, while, higher the risk, higher the profit as well. More volatility means more risk but more profit as well.

I would not call BE stagnant, but in fact stable. In BE fluctuation is not that high, it’s less volatile, there is not a lot of influence for driving prices up or down in BE (like we saw in B-17) or its difficult to influence prices in BE, that is another way to put it. Just let time take it’s course, and as development progresses, people move in, price rises in a natural way.

In terms of price growth, agree BE might not beat, CDA, DHA and even Multi. Accessibility to BE is one factor, and there is more supply than demand as well. BT (with the Pindi vibe) is be the price driver for Bahria and not BE. However, BT and DHA are “khacha khach” well-packed and congested areas, and now development is going way into Phases 8, and sooner than you know Phases 9, 10 etc. If I look on Google maps, open places to breathe have sparse populations, while densely-packed BT and DHA are just too much over-populated for my case.

Agree, “don’t put all your eggs in one basket”. I want to spread the investment’s between different societies, but only within the CDA zone and ICT, not RWP or LHR, that’s just my personal opinion. Agree 5 marla is the best investment size, but where you think that you could potentially build a house even though the original intention was for investment, 10 marla is the way to go.

I would definitely be spending less than 50% of my total liquidity, that’s why the installment options are more lucrative ofcourse, and that is why I would definitely want to get your opinion about BE2 / BH. Seems there is not a lot of attention on Enclave 2, just because Enclave 1 is not yet fully filled or complete / developed.

#14

@nagijawad Let me formally welcome you to the forum, you’ve brought fresh perspective and surely going to become a good contributor. Many good members have deserted this forum leaving few of us behind who are also loosing steam. We need more energetic and enthusiastic members to keep the forum alive and interesting.

Coming back to your original question, considering your preference for living, I would suggest adding Bahria Golf City to your list. Nothing beats it in ambience and mountain views, and it is going to stay this way for some time.

I have not personally visited BE2/BH as yet, so can not comment on it with confidence. But it is going to take time before it is live-able, that is for sure.

#15

@isloo1: Thank you bro. Although I am relatively new to the real estate investment sector, since I am planning to invest for the first time very soon, I have been doing my self-learning, research and browsing this forum definitely helps to get personal opinions from people living in the zone / area and people who are actively investing in similar properties.

Bahria Golf City is definitely #1 on my list since its inception like 5-8 years ago, when I was still a student. I don’t see any marketing around it anymore, as it’s very mature already. For me I view it as a retirement place, the most liveable place while not far from ISB city, nested within the lower foothills, but prices there are not for the average joe. Also when that 5-star hotel is complete, there will be a huge price jump definitely. Golf City rates are like buying in F-6 or G-6. For retirement purposes if I am definitely able meet it’s financial demands, then definitely a 10 marla plot would be the ultimate residential property to have there, no doubt. Golf City Murree defines the boundary between middle-upper and elite class in luxury style. :slight_smile:

I would personally recommend you to visit BE2 / BH some day on nice weather, and see the semi-developed infrastructure plus nice views that are present, it’s quite nicely planned, many videos available on youtube as well. Definitely it will take a long time for it to get populated indeed, and I think the Naya Pakistan appartments when completed in 2022/2023 (already many floors have been built for a few apartment buildings, and progress is fast; have been monitoring progress with videos that people uploaded between Q1 21 and Q4 21) will be the first ones to see residents, as this low cost residency scheme within such a nice hilly environment has a high probability to get filled up quickly with residents. My assumption is that the Naya Pakistan scheme, might drive more people in quicklier (lets see), which then sets the basis and foundation / indication when people will slowly and gradually start to move in and eventually settle and live in, then we would also potentially see the first few houses to be constructed and built (but these are all assumptions one after the other). Possessions have not started yet, but for some streets they will start quite soon as I was told.

#16

Pardon the naiveness, in case, I may had missed the obvious about pricing (i.e., budget) or optimal options (i.e., personal living and asset and/or appreciation). Anyways, I would add Gulberg Greens/Residencia and D-12 to the list.

Gulberg (whether Greens or Residencia)
To me reflects one of those options that represents one of the best combinations for personal living and investment. Greens for sure farm houses and only lump sum payments is best in terms of location, the green factor, one of the best managed farm houses in twin cities. Quite liveable as of now.

Residencia will take time, though initial blocks around D-Markaz are getting populated quite fast but I say it’s a 5 odd years from now till it gets in proper shape but prices will jump, community lifestyle will thrive and location will be among one of the best as far as proximity to the capital etc.

D-12
Among one of my personal favourites and among top priority of CDA developments. Some of the administrative elites have been alloted the plots there and it keeps on getting improved with infrastructure development, location, pricing, and population. Though it’s CDA which for sure can’t compete with infrastructure and ameneties like BT but for me still D-12 represents the best option in that zone after Fs and Es of CDA. Location right at feet of Margala Hills.

Being Devil’s advocate, as much as I admire BE anyday if personal living right now, it’s stagnation, reputation of MR and BT projects, political factors like Aleem Khan/PVC and for sure deteriorating service provisiong by BT represent some considerable question marks!

#17

@Its_ImtiaX_88: Definitely, D-12 and Gulberg Greens do deserve a mention into the list. D-12 is one of the most beautiful blocks next to Margalla, very liveable place indeed. However, infrastructure such as access roads should be better. D-12 Markaz is almost non-existent, not really a commercial environment there. Even though CDA charges hefty prices for their land, they don’t provide the infrastructure that private housing schemes do. This is notably the difference between the public and private housing sectors. Public housing sectors have access to the best land and locations, for instance in ISB Zone 1.

I might raise some eyebrows by saying this, it’s sad but CDA is a corrupt organization (not everyone, but there are some people), there are many evidences. How do they earn money to pay their employees? Sale of land at very high prices (cheapest outskirt CDA zones near encroachments have more than double price as compared to BE for the same plot size), recovery of land owned by Mafia, and through “hafta” payed by Qabza groups. This is sad, but this is the reality.

Gulberg Greens is also a good society. However, it will take time to get populated, only D Block is currently the most advanced. The problem is in the design, and I am not sure who designed the map. When you enter a society you have commercials which is fine, then you have farm houses located first and then finally the residencia? Aren’t farm houses supposed to be in the most secluded part of a society, they should be in the furthest corners that have least traffic, noise and more nature? Not sure which genius came up with that map.

CDA List (not prioritized in terms of superiority - prioritization is very subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion):

  1. Park Enclave 3 (based on PE1 and PE2, please be cautious to invest here)
  2. Bahria Hills
  3. Bahria Enclave
  4. B-17
  5. Park View City
  6. DHA 5
  7. Green Enclave 1
  8. D-12
  9. Gulberg Residencia
  10. Bahria Golf City (TMA Murree)
#18

For sure, CDA ameneties and infrastructure is not on par with the likes of DH/BT in general. However, the elite sectors of CDA E/F and now to quite some extent D-12 and forthcoming C and D series are not that off the mark.

D-12 is an under developing sector but it’s location, the proximity to greenry and calmness that it has to offer is the Selling point.

It’s true, the golden combination mostly dont exist (i.e., liveability and growth). In many instances, a trade-off has to be accepted and D-12 represents one of the options for trade-offs.

The problem with PAK is almost every Real Estate project/organisation/player is corrupt to the core. CDA main corruption is in its infrastructure and civic works. Whereas BT/DH/etc. are corrupt in terms of delivery, encroachments and very one sided terms and conditions that exploit customers. BT land litigations and documents issues are deep to the point that no bank accepts the documents.

All in all, yes unfortunately The Real Estate and Auto Sectors here are extreme exploitative one way or the other.

Regarding Gulberg, yes I agree Farm house should be at a more calmer place. But as Gulberg started to acquire land it started developing/organising Farms. Later on with more land came Residencia.

The concept of Farm Houses is away from crowded and suffocated life of city. However, in general with poor access, deteriorated road Infrastructures and Petro Prices location prevails (fortunately and unfortunately). These few signals at Kashmir Highway, that were mostly hassle free are now turning into night mare with long queues and accidents.

#19

@nagijawad bro, D-12 is a completely different beast. You can’t put it in the same league with DHAs, Bahria, Multi or Gulberg.

CDA does not need to entice people, therefore, their sectors at ugly in the beginning, but then they do beautification, horticulture, pavements, parks, etc, once house construction and commercials is pretty much complete.

For your love of mountains, you can also consider Shah Allah Ditta and its nearby housing options. There is one in C-12, opposite to D-12, that is inside Margalla hills and prices are still reasonable. Will not remain the same when traffic starts flowing on Margalla Avenue early next year.

#20

If i had a choice right now, I will ignore any option other than D-12, In five years time D-12 return will have no match with Bahria, DHA, B-17 or any other option, Location wise D-12 will be new I-8 an entry gate into main ISB, amenities wise it will be on par with F series or may be better. much better scenery and greenery.

#21

@isloo1: D-12 is a “successful” CDA sector, compared to the others in the list above, which are mostly privately owned housing societies. Successful is the keyword here with CDA, and another exception is Park Enclave (PE1, PE2) where they didn’t do a good job, or just maybe people did not buy into it, compared to BE which was offering at half the price at that time. BE was a rival competitor to PE and won in that scenario (lower price was the deciding factor why people on-boarded BE, location wise PE was better off from Zero Point with road access). Also to note CDA dominates Zone 1, and this was Zone 4. We all know, Zone 4 is not dominated by CDA but by private housing schemes, BE, BT, Gulberg, PVC etc incl. exceptions such as DHA, Naval etc. So, in conclusion, if a Bahria society will spawn next to CDA owned one, history might repeat itself, as the case with PE and BE. I’m not saying Bahria is perfect, no society is, and comparing the public and private sectors in Pakistan is also not a 1:1 comparison, I mean the aforementioned example, is not an apples to apples comparison.

Let’s talk Zone 1:
Amongst the biggest CDA mishaps, I-11 tops the list, which is a sad story that you can find a sector so close within the central city limits, where plot prices average 100 lacs (while the next blocks are 2-3 times more). I-11 is not a liveable place since basic amenities were never provided there, a camping ground if you may. :slight_smile:

Not sure what is happening in I-12 either. Technically all the older sectors should be fully developed before developing further south and south west. However, after E/F/G-11s there are just encroachments, there is no map or civilized society after that in a continuous pattern. Empty patches here and there, encroachments, village dwellings, then some blocks G-13 to G-15 where some road pattern and block style plotting is visible, and similarly for I-14 to I-16 (these have encroachments within themselves as well). Technically after the 11’series blocks the only travel method is, Kashmir highway, GT road, and Margalla Av. when it’s complete. And until 11’series there is Margall Rd, Nazim-ud-din Rd, Ibn-e-Sina Rd, South Service Rd plus Kashmir Highway and Margalla Av. when its complete. This pattern of development are the results of CDA decisions over the years, so they are to blame ultimately and not private housing societies or their owners. If I look at Islamabad from Google Earth, civilized society end’s at 11 or 12 series blocks, then there are just patches of sparse blocks after that. In conclusion, when travelling southbound central Islamabad city ends at this point, where the evident city block patterns are not continuously evident anymore and things get more chaotic with roads going in every direction and houses not aligned (i.e., not planned).

E-12 might be the new kid on the block, however it’s original plans started in 1989, that gives us an idea, that with CDA risk is high for new emerging sectors, you never know. :slight_smile:

Get the Zameen App

Buy and Rent Property faster and better
using our app.
Scan the QR code to
get the app

Get Connected

© 2007– Zameen.com. All rights are reserved.