Bahria phase 8 f2 vs f3

Dear experts

One of my relative offered me 2 plots

Can any body suggest me which one is a good buy

F2 corner boulevard 1009 10 marla
F3 general 1276 10 marla

Also please let me know if you can make a fair assessment in term of cash money

Also please let me know when bahria is planning to give possession

Bahria is a gamble currently because of the issues Malik Riaz is stuck in, only time will tell what shape he comes out of after all this beating he’s getting at the hands of Gen. Raheel. So my sincere advice is to be very careful

Thank you musafar for your advise but still bahria is bahria … DHA also have alot of mess like vellay, DHA City etc

No doubt brother, all have their own issues. But bahria is in trouble right now, I really sensed trouble when I heard that bahria cut down on guards and facilities in its existing developed and populated areas. I feel Malik Riaz is getting strained, and the outcome is only known to Allah but a cautious approach should be, not to put any new money in bahria until Gen. Raheel leaves office and we get a chance to see how Malik Riaz came out of this …

Dear Musafar,

Bahria town Karachi is developing on a fast pace ... You can check out this on google map ... So i don't think they are going to face any major issue, as they are ready to work on valley too

Karachi is Zardari area … Different story compared to Isld where Chaudhry Nisar rules. I do hope and pray that he manages through these tough times as bahria does have a class of its own and is certainly able to provide quality to end-users. But these are games of the big guys, I do value security for my little hard-earned money. I am not too pessimistic about the future of bahria either but do feel that caution is definitely needed in the current situation

@ Musafar Sahab

Point of view seconded, however buying in the developed part of BT is likely to stand for nice and esthetic living and I think it will keep appreciating with the progress of the construction activity

100% agreed with your point that one shall wait to invest in the less developed area in BT till General Raheel era is over and see what happens after!

It seems that RWP ring road could have positive effect on BT property and before next elections, this road has to be announced to secure the twin cities seats.

Thank you for alarming me about BT,

but no one answered my question :) , i am looking for price assessment, which one is better and what is BT commitment when they will develop it ?

Thanks Abdul Qayyum sahib for the input, did you hear that bahria cut down on guards in existing bahria recently which resulted in thefts occurring in those areas. It is here on a forum on zameen.com, I don't have any other source. This is what makes me worried that bahria's pressures are reaching even the existing developed areas. This might be a minor thing for the existing areas but certainly more worrisome for areas that are still to develop.

Brother Akhtar wahab! the answer to your question is that prices in that area are very low now, so good return expected IF AND WHEN THEY ARE DEVELOPED ... There is a reason for using block letters, risk is high brother. Only Allah knows when will they develop, I don't think Malik Riaz himself knows either at this time, as he can't think about it until Gen. Raheel leaves office.

@ Musafar

We all know that MR is in deep trouble and all of his efforts are now concentrated in DHA valley.

He has already given some prime land to DHA, offered transfer options to valley plot owners to compensate the billions, He took from valley funds, offering RDA to build dam in the DHA-2 extension area, not in location#1, from his pocket and all other efforts which are still hidden.

The old filthy game of all the developers: Get some little land, multiply it with 100s and 1000s in the dirty imagination, sell files to the innocent public and use that money to start another invisible project at some other location, seems not working with MR now!

Smart people know the wind flow directions and manage well in sending their money outside before bad time knocks the door!

62 billion is not small amount especially when his Karachi project needs a constant flow on cash in bulk amount. He has to lay off employees.

Regarding thefts, actually people were very lazy trusting on BT security. WE MUST KNOW THAT BT RAWALPINDI DOESN NOT HAVE COMPOUND WALL, like BT phase 1-6 or Enclave or DHA-2 proper or Park Enclave or Airforce Tarnol or AWT Sang Jani!

Bahria is still a lot safe than the common areas of Pindi/Islamabad.

Regarding security, DHA is no#1 now.

Thanks brother Abdul Qayyum! You’re right, but I am going to take what you said one step further and in doing so try answer the question of the brother here in the post. Malik Riaz is still able to announce new projects (like Mall of Islamabad and others) even being in deep trouble like this because that’s where he can mint new money. Old projects like remaining phase 8 and many more like that need only investment to develop rather minting any new cash, as the cash from there is eaten up long ago when those projects were ‘new’ Thus the prospects of any undeveloped project are never good in this game that you rightfully called filthy. Developers need new projects to get new money and only a small part of that is put into old projects resulting in slow developments … And these new projects and new money needs to keep coming so as the ponzi scheme can go on … Thus bottom line … No investment in files recommended, period. This applies to bahria, dha, cda, multi and all developers that I know or have heard about, they are all the same when it comes to playing this filthy game with our money.

But i have some opinion on it…If the rates of possession area bahria phase 8 fall to 3 lcs /marla then it is worth considering because you cannot get this price even in some mediocre developed scheme…

Bros Musafar and Abdul Qayyum, I really appreciate your well informed and sane contribution. Much better than petty exchanges by some enthusiasts on the same topic on another thread.

No doubt BT is in thick soup and the immediate reaction I am seeing are in two domains. First, MR's successor has assumed more proactive role and starting taking over things, at least for BE. He is bringing in his own team on key positions. Second Bahria has become more ruthless in recovery of pending installments and showing rigor to complete delayed and pending projects and squeeze file holders to pay outstanding dues. Now this is bringing heat to many property flippers who use to trade files on down-payments only and did not have means to pay installments. This is more pronounced for commercials where installments run into 4-5 million.

If bahria is completely busted like Eden, so much that it has done massive layoffs to prepare for the worst, then this would be an epic sinking like Titanic.

I would keep good hopes though. As this sinking would stir the entire economy and earn a bad name to the govt.I am sure Sharif are not up for that.

Thanks brother Saadi for your valuable comment. I personally feel that possession areas in bahria are still worth its price and of course lower will be better for buying if they fall further. My point was to stay away from putting new money in files in such uncertain and unstable circumstances, and that is really my view for all developers as none has proved reliable if we look at their individual track records. This is with the view that I consider everyone's money here like mine, that is hard-earned and halal which can't be risked in gambling of any kind.

Thanks brother Isloo for your kind words and for your useful comments. Malik Riaz' successor is news to me, could you please enlighten us further on that development.

The issue really isn't shaking up key posts or anything like that. The problem is this business model. They keep collecting money in the name of new projects, use it to fill their coffers and fund their lavish livings and put very little into actual development work. This delays projects as we can see across the board and they need to keep churning new projects in order to keep the ponzi scheme going. If they develop the project that they took money for, they will still make good money but greed has no limit. This same greed is not exclusive to big guys like Malik Riaz but we common people are equally greedy. We are willing to get a peace of paper even though we can very well see this filthy business with no realistic chance of timely development, as the price is lower, it is in instalments and we hope to flip the paper at the next available opportunity to make some quick bucks. We forget the fundamentals that we are getting a paper for our money which is a promise from the most corrupt and immoral of the people. Then we lose our money, hold a paper and complain ... Take bahria enclave 2 as an example here.

My view on bahria's possession areas in not pessimistic as standards can go down if it goes in trouble like it seems currently, but in my opinion it is still worth the money as you do hold the land. Expecting security in a society like ours without your own gun is not a realistic long-lasting goal but for discussion another day.

Dear Musafar: Ali Riaz, the son of big Malik is the legit successor. On business model, I disagree with you that it is entirely greed of MR that runs it. Well, he may be getting the biggest piece of the pie, but he has second and third line investors who have fair share in this plunder. At the tail end, comes you and I who make speculative investment in a file or two. Living standard concerns to only those who actually want to dewel in there, and for them, as you said, lower is better.

But the good thing about MR is that he has still held this repute as 'a man who eventually delivers'. Can't say for tomorrow, no one could say that for double shah either.

@Musafar. Just one correction to your comment, you do Not own any land if you buy in bahria regardless of whether its a plot or a file. The ownership of land remains with BT. So essentially even in case of a possession plot, what you actually buy in bahria is, like you said yourself, just a piece of paper.

No brother Awais, once they give you possession of the land and you construct your house on it, it is your land and your house. I am talking practically although you’re right in strict legal sense. No one is ever going to evict you from there, this isn’t like 200 years ago, there is enough media, democracy, human rights, courts, civil society etc. Around. If you’re still not convinced then I’d say that that risk is worth taking as it is negligible if any; but don’t compare it to a file with no land in your hand which is an entirely different story.

Musafar I think you are not aware of the fact that some people Have been evicted from bahria in the past. The reasons for this action are another story as they were found to be allegedly involved in some undesirable activities, but don’t be under any illusion. People have been thrown out and in “strict legal sense” there is nothing they can do about it, unless they are powerful enough to take on the big BT. So far nothing doing.

Brother Isloo, I agree with you on the 2nd and 3rd line looters after Malik Riaz but I used his name as a symbol to name them all, as after all it is his name which is out in the public more.

Regarding delivery from Malik Riaz, you're right that his past history is better but that's what got him the trust of so many people that he became what he is now. My concern is though that he made his money and is using now that old name to make more money rather than delivering like before. If he really still believed in delivery then why he looted such a big amount from Valley. He could take the money and develop valley for them. This way he would have earned some money and earned more name and he would not have been in the troubles that he is facing currently. Why he did what he did in Bahria enclave 2. What is happening in remaining parts of phase 8. Where is phase 8 extension and phase 9 that he's taken money from people ages ago, watch phase 9 videos of making something like Venice on his web site if they haven't been removed recently. These are things what makes me say what I said. He is not delivering like before and you're right that nobody knows the future but this more recent past is telling us that the future doesn't seem very rosy. Again no one knows for sure but at least I can say that the risk is high and that is why I say that trusting him with our hard-earned money for a file is not prudent.

Now when I say this all, I say it for all developers ... Literally all of them with no exception. This model of keep announcing new projects and forgetting the old ones is just not sustainable for ever. It is like a ponzi scheme as I said, whoever happens to be at the end will lose all of his money.

Malik Riaz is in deep trouble we all say, but he is still able to announce mall of islamabad. Why, because that's where he is going to get new money. He is going to use that money for whatever he wishes and return there after 3-5 years and will see what to do in the situation prevalent at the time. Why can't he concentrate on developing remaining bahria enclave and bahria rawalpindi that he's taken money for already. That money is gone now. Focusing there means spending money which he doesn't have. He is going to keep a couple of bulldozers there, doing some slow work to keep people appeased and really focus on announcing new after new project all over the country to keep minting new money.